Coach Dimitris Itoudis, double EuroLeague winner talks to us about his inspirational journey from a small Greek village to the absolute pinnacle of European basketball.
The inspiration for the first question is from the recent events of your domestic season with Hapoel IBI Tel Aviv. You had to abandon a domestic game because of a strike involving Israeli players. We are going from one problem in European basketball to another. What is your view on the current state of European basketball? How do you see ways of improving the current state of the game in Europe and changing the entire ecosystem into something much healthier in the entire continent?
The first question is pretty much a discussion that can cover the whole interview actually. It has so many potential topics that we can analyse this and it will take us probably the whole interview. It’s well addressed in this question. And actually, thank you for this question.
So let’s address issue with the strike. First of all, in the free world, this is a constitutional right of any employee working with the unions that they have right to strike whenever they feel that there is no other way to solve issues. So not much to say over there.
Having said that, I’ve been in professional basketball over 30 years and this the first time that I have witnessed this. But I have respect, as I said, to all the unions and to all the employees.
Initially, I was informed that the games, because of the strike of the Israeli players, will not take place. Eventually, one day before our game, I witnessed that the other games are taking place. Some teams were left with four players, other teams with three players due to injuries. Some of the players have been called to play 40 minutes with no substitutions. So the rhythm of the game is completely different and it was a real parody. I’m not afraid to call it that way
Closer to our game, I was told that we’re going to have only the five registered foreigners. Vasile Micic was a little bit injured, so he definitely couldn’t play for 40 minutes. It was really very bad to see and to witness this. The game has been played only for 17 or so minutes, and it ended because of the rule which doesn’t allow play to continue with fewer than 2 players
In regard to the other part of your question, we are witnessing something that we have already identified and discussed among head coaches, board members and colleagues from other sports. College basketball now is paying enormous money for all top players from Europe. We have this kind of situation when we are bleeding talents which are going for the college basketball. A lot of top basketball clubs question the sense and purpose of having junior programmes. Because you educate somebody, you bring them to a certain level, spending time, money, infrastructure, pay for coaching staff and everything else. Then this kid will have a better offer to go to the United States. The club is left without the player and any compensation for working with him and nurturing his talent. Obviously, this is also the constitutional right of each and every athlete to choose what is his destination, but somehow, we need to establish a criteria which will govern the movement of the players.
I’m just bringing you an example of the ex-Yugoslavia, when a player, if I remember correctly could leave their respective clubs at the age of 24 or 25 or even older after fulfilling all obligations. I’m not saying that we can adopt exactly this system in modern society, but we need some kind of rules that will allow the clubs that invest in the youth department to benefit from their work and expertise. It’s very much in the interest of the club that these players stay longer and play for a couple of years for their senior teams.
This is not something that I’m just saying out of the blue, as I said we need to sit down and have some more in depth discussions bringing more ideas. No doubt it will take us a long time to implement in a free world system which respects constitutional rights of the employee, rights of the workers, rights of employers and protects the existence of a youth system. So, it’s the whole analysis and the process that we need to dedicate an entire, huge interview to it. Definitely we are witnessing very challenging days and people that are running the championships and all sorts of competitions needs to sit down and sit a little bit longer in order create the possibility of having the best domestic players over here in Europe.
Obviously, the American community will have an opposite view and will try to defend their own rights so they will try to invest even more money. It was something that was inevitable and undoubtedly it was something that had to happen. American college programs which are having basketball, women basketball, soccer, American football or baseball have enormous money from TV rights. Contrary to the old scholarship system, this wealth is now also shared with athletes. Now we witness it, but as coaches and as people working in this environment, we’ve seen it coming for a long, long time. I remember, discussing it when I visited Michigan University 10 years ago.
So there’s a lot of talent bleeding out there from Europe or from all other continents towards the United States and we need to enforce a kind of a law and rules that will allow again teams that have a great youth system to at least give a chance to the kids to play in their senior team.
Okay, do you think that a possible introduction of NBA Europe will stabilize the market and create rules which will cascade down to the junior level creating a clear, fair system?
First of all, I’m not sure that this idea of NBA Europe will happen soon and under what kind of circumstances, under what kind of format, under what kind of competition system. I do see a lot of doubts and question marks out there. Allow me to say that my dream as a basketball coach and as a basketball fanatic is to see a united European or a united EuroLeague NBA, if I might call it like that. It’s a merger of those two ideas.
So, if we can go and move towards the expansion of the EuroLeague from 20 teams to 22 or 24 teams. It of course means a different system of competition with probably two groups or maybe even four groups in the future. My actual dream is to see a united EuroLeague NBA with 30 teams, as it is in NBA. So I’m just mentioning NBA just to enlarge the idea of expansion and having 30 teams.
All this though, it can’t be achieved without sitting and talking with the local leagues. With the system which I’m suggesting we will have more games, which needs to be managed sensibly.
We already have a lot of loading and a lot of injuries because the top players in Europe, go to the national teams and they have over 80, 90, 100 games. So we need to sit down and find a solution and I do have some ideas and some opinions in regards of that.
How would you asses your first season with Hapoel Tel Aviv in the EuroLeague?
First of all, you must remember that we have won the place in the EuroLeague. We haven’t been given this place, we won EuroCup last year, so we won this place on the basketball court. I think we had a very good campaign. We finished 6th, ok could have been higher but you must remember that we were leading the league for several months and we were never outside of the playoff spots.
We understand that we have to make a lot of adjustments in order to be even more successful next season but challenges of constantly playing away and not having an actual home court are enormous.
However, more than anything our campaign shows stability, it shows financial investment from people that they are lovers of the sport, and they are very successful entrepreneurs. That’s how I would have described if I could in few minutes our journey in first EuroLeague that it was for us fantastic, could be better, yes, that’s what we’re working for. And that’s what we’re seeking for. It’s not easy for our fans to follow this process, not easy to travel abroad to cheer and to help the team when it plays always abroad.
Going back to your origins, please tell me how as a young 20 year old man you managed to go from Greece to Zagreb and coach the youth team there?
Another very good question but it will take another one day to talk about that. To summarize it I would say that back in 1987-88 things were not happening that easy as nowadays. You couldn’t go to click on any given site and gather information.
Experience is something that you cannot go and find in a supermarket. You can’t buy five kilos of experience! Yeah, so you gained experience and life experience is something that tells you that if you are good enough. If you invest in your knowledge, if you put efforts out there, then eventually you will succeed in something. And success doesn’t only mean lifting trophies. Obviously, that’s the pinnacle. That’s the, you know, the glory. But karma was knocking on my door and it’s something that was like a vision. I had a very clear a vision at the age of 16, 17 I was playing basketball, I saw that I could not be a very important player on the level of Nikos Galis or Panagiotis Giannakis who were Gods in Greece after winning the European championship in 1987. Seeing these players pretty much moved me from soccer to basketball. But I’ve seen that I wanted to teach and I wanted to coach. Obviously, at the age of 18 or 19, I didn’t see myself being a successful coach or being or whatever level of a coach. But I wanted just to teach the kids of my neighbour, kids from my town. I wanted also to study. So, I made my research and I found Zagreb University, which is still is one of the best among the European Universities in regard to physical education and getting a sport specialization from the second year. Let’s not forget back then in ’89, ’88, in Yugoslavia, united Yugoslavia, before the war started in ’91, it was one of the best championships in the European continent. It was also a generation of players which has revolutionised world basketball.
I was fortunate enough to pick Zagreb. So out of the blue from a country boy from born and raised in a small village in Trikala Imathias to find the right contacts and to travel to Zagreb it was a massive challenge. The first challenge was to learn the language. In my first year I travelled to learn language because I didn’t speak Serbo-Croatian. So, I had to take two degrees of the language and after that pass other exams to get into the university.
Very inspirational story for young coaches
When I went there, my friend, I found my purpose. I said, here is where I belong. Here is where I’m going to give everything because I’m not coming from a rich family. Nothing against the rich families, but contrary, I had to fight for my scholarship. I had to fight for my position. I had to learn extra. I had to study extra. I have to practice extra because I was not speaking the language. I became one of the many over there. They speak the language as a native boy being born in Zagreb, so I had extra lessons. I learned also that with the language I created friendships which proudly I keep until this day, I have friendships from my school, from the university, and the best university was also obviously the one we were going to. But also parallel to university, is hanging out with those guys, to play basketball, to teach basketball to kids, I found myself in one pickup game with my friend Igor Jukic, which I met back in 1990 and he’s now a professor, being also the one running the university. I’m proudly calling him my friend. After the pickup game, he says, hey, guys, I have one spot, who wants to be a coach of mini basketball in Mladost? I raised my hand and said, me. That’s my call, and this is where everything starts. In Zagreb, one afternoon after the pickup game, I started being more. I was already in university learning basketball and now I’m also coaching.
Also back in 1989, I met unfortunately now the late Mr. Dusan Ivkovic, I started the relationship with him and all the rest is history. Then was the time when I found my purpose. I said, here I belong. Here I’m going to give my best. And this is where I graduated first among both the foreign and local students. I graduated first! I started my PhD over there, but PAOK called me and I had to move from Zagreb to Thessaloniki in order to work in such a great club as PAOK. But, you know, I found my purpose. I said here is where I belong. And you know, a player or a kid needs to fight for his purpose. And when you find your purpose and you can really support your purpose with education, hard work, then the rest will follow. If God gives you health and you care about your own health, it’s going to come for sure.
I’m sure that another defining moment in your career was working with Coach Zeljko Obradovic. How important was this period of 13 years in Panathinaikos?
Very important moments. We became family. He baptized my daughter. He married me with my wife. I’m proud to call him friend, big brother. And we became family, as I said, not only associates. You don’t stay with somebody 13 years if you don’t have a lot of common things. You don’t stay with somebody if you don’t inspire each other. We became partners in this very competitive job. I have had three very good offers to go to take a lead of another EuroLeague team. I decided to stay with him. I don’t regret anything. All my life decisions were right, they were memorable years. A great club, winning together a lot of titles, but most of all, winning friendships, creating friendships, human relations. I’m proud to pick up the phone and call, let’s say, all this generation of guys. And what the guys we were working with! Dejan Bodiroga is leading the EuroLeague. He used to be our player. Johny Rogers is GM in the NBA, and many others. Some of them are still in the basketball world, some other are very successful in the business world. This what basketball brings and sports in general, relationships.
So beating him in your first win in EuroLeague in 2016 must been an absolutely overwhelming experience
I wouldn’t say beating him, I would say, my team won against his team. We played the first game against each other when I was in Banvit and he was in Fenerbahce. So pretty much the emotional part was at this first game we played in the Turkish league back in 2013 if I’m not mistaken.
